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Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog vs Mega Man/@comment-26363797-20160203003347/@comment-2197224-20160316055857
Alrighty, let's take a look. Again, gonna cover each question/answer as best I can here- although I did have a few answers to them already in the other answer below, I'll put some of them into here for the sake of convenience- Black Hole Bomb (And by extension, the Wibbly-Wobbly-Timey-Wimey stuff)-''' "I've already stated why I believe the BHB is useless against Sonic..." Hmm. You do raise a valid point with the Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity Black Hole (I didn't know one was involved until now), but from looking at it, it seems to be less powerful than an actual Black Hole- sucking things towards it like buildings, but it didn't seem to be actually be doing anything on the whole, unlike an actual Black Hole (Spaghettification) or the Black Hole Bomb (Causing Damage/Drawing weaker/defeated enemies into it forever). Like, since Dr Eggman (A regular human) was there with Sonic and friends right in the middle of it, and he wasn't suffering any ill effects himself apart from being pulled about a bit. So despite the name, it seemed to be more functioning more like a Wormhole or a Portal than a Black Hole, as such. Could be wrong, though. Likewise, Chaos Control being used to escape the Black Hole Bomb. Whilst I did sort of cover this somewhere else (Can't quite remember where at the moment), the reason I didn't go with it was down to Sonic's general lack of experience with it (Only doing it by chance the first time despite the impressive distance to which he did it, and needing Shadow's help the other time), on top of never using it again outside of Sonic Adventure 2 Battle as well as the set of circumstances in the fight itself- with him focussing predominantly on forcing himself to stay in his Super Form with no Ring Energy whilst also juggling trying to escape the Black Hole Bomb. To be fair as well, a similar reason was given for Mega Man not using his own teleportation ability as well- in that he only uses it at the beginning or end of a level to enter and exit, but never actually fighting with it. Same goes with not giving him multiple time-controlling abilities (Time Slow, Flash Stopper) alongside the Time Stopper, since not only would it have not made sense, but it just would've been cheap if Mega Man could just stop Sonic in place constantly. Plus, the bit with Mega Man using the Time Stopper to save himself from Super Sonic made for a nice reference to the old Mega Man VS Quick Man flash animation on Newgrounds, in which he does the same thing to stop Quick Man. 'Weapons-' "Pharaoh Shot likely wouldn't work either considering Mega Man needs to charge the damn thing up" Yup. That's why the first time Mega Man used the Pharaoh Shot, it was part of an ambush (Throwing it at Super Sonic from behind during the brief period in which the latter thought he may have won.), and the second time, he charged it as he spoke and threw that one as Super Sonic charged him. Forgot to mention it, though- that's what I had in mind, but I guess it was a little bit of a gameplay/storyline-related oversight. "And saying Spark Shock would work is honestly pushing it, since Spark Shock immobilizes enemies in the Mega Man Universe by short-circuiting the electronic components of Mega Man's enemies" Well-spotted- that's exactly how it works for the most part, right down to robots with insulated coatings being immune to it. Even with organic beings though, the Spark Shock would still have a similar effect. High-voltage electricity (Such as the kind used for that attack) can certainly stun (IE. Tazers, Stun Guns), because it interferes with the electrical signals from nerves to the muscles- causing them to tense up and temporarily lose control. The effect tends to stop relatively quickly when the target is no longer exposed to the current, however. So with that in mind, the Spark Shock would have been able to stun Sonic, or at the very least slow him down temporarily. 'Ammo-' "Even if we give him the Energy Saver, he can only use (Astro Crush) a maximum of 6 times before running out of ammo. Also, a lot of Mega Man's weaponry doesn't really have enough ammo to go for an extended fight such as this" Perhaps, but I find it depends on two main factors- firstly, depends on the weapon. Like, on the one hand you have the more powerful ones such as the Astro Crush and the Black Hole Bomb being more limited in their usage due to their high energy cost, but on the other, you have the more energy-efficient but still deadly ones, like the Metal Blade (Which could be used up to 112 times without extra Weapon Energy in the original Mega Man 2, and assuming the Energy Saver doubles how much energy you have, it'd increase it to 224 Blades), for example. And even then, there were certain ones that Mega Man could use without limit under certain circumstances, like his arsenal in Super Smash Bros 4 and Marvel VS Capcom/Street Fighter X Tekken ('''Tornado Hold, Leaf Shield, Mega Ball, Ice Slasher, Thunder Beam, Metal Blade/Shadow Blade/Hyper Bomb, Crash Bomber/Danger Wrap, Skull Barrier/Plant Barrier, Flame Blast, Spark Shock, Air Shooter, Hard Knuckle, Super Arm, and to a lesser extent the Black Hole Bomb, since that does require something to be useable). I did try to factor it in to some extent all the same though, by generally keeping limits on how many times Mega Man used each weapon- most of them are only used once or twice as part of say, a combo or to counter one of Sonic's attacks. The other thing was, how they're used- as established with being able to consistently keep constant track of and accurately get opponents of similar speed to Sonic or ones who use time-stopping or teleporting technology, Mega Man would need to have some seriously good aim. Likewise, considering his more analytical and strategic approach as opposed to just charging in all guns blazing, he would know for the most part to conserve energy by not overdoing his Special Weapon-based attacks (Outside of some exceptions, like using a load of his Crash Bombs at once to set a trap for Sonic), and saving his more powerful ones for later. So I suppose you could say, it doesn't matter so much if you don't miss. :P "Time Stopper can only be held for 10 seconds at most, for example." It's actually closer to 14 seconds (Going by Quick Man's vulnerability to it, he loses 1 health per second to it at full Weapon Energy to up to half of his 28 health), but it's still about a fifth of the time Super Sonic can stay transformed for without outside assistance (Additional Rings or other Energy Sources), and even if it might not seem like a very long time, the things that can happen in such a short space can still be crucial. Like as we saw, Mega Man using it to move out the way of Super Sonic when he was vulnerable, and begin formulating a plan once he'd analysed what his opponent was capable of doing after transforming. Double Mega Buster-''' "And do I even need to state my problems about the whole 'Double Mega Buster' thing?" I know what you mean by that- although I do have an answer for it. As for why the Double Mega Buster didn't kill Mega Man when he used it, it was because I predominantly based it on its in-game usage in Super Adventure Rockman rather than in the Archie Comics. When he used it there, he still fell offline as a result of the severe power drain, but he was eventually able to reboot on his own a little while later once his power supply had replenished itself (As he did in the fight itself), and with little-to-no apparent damage despite the overheating, the resulting humongous explosion, and the Temple of the Moon collapsing on top of him. I did keep the Archie Comics and the effect using it had on him there in mind however, so I used elements from both depictions- as in, causing visible external damage to himself (His Busters glowing red-hot and destroying the armour on his forearms from the sheer power of firing it) from the Archie Comics, knocking himself offline from the power drain and overheating from both depictions, and the recovery time and being able to reboot from it on his own some time later from Super Adventure Rockman. So yup, I did try to make sure I knew what I was dealing with, there. 'Durability-' "Also, I think you downplayed Sonic's Durability too much here." Not intentionally, though. I did keep this in mind actually, and came to the conclusion that although yes he is quite a lot tougher than average for a guy with no special armour or anything (Especially with regards to taking punishing blows from guys like Dark Gaia, as you mentioned), he's still pretty light and easy to knock around (Hence the use of things like the Hard Knuckle and Pharaoh Shot)- and as we saw with Mephiles one-shotting and in fact outright killing him with his impaling laser-lance thing in Sonic 2006, is vulnerable to slashing/stabbing things, and can eventually be killed by either something like that or from being shot by something as powerful as (Or more) than the Double Mega Buster. Like, sort of a more realistic aversion to the Strong Flesh, Weak Steel trope. At the same time though, we can definitely all agree that he's a tough cookie- and as we saw in the fight itself, Sonic did have the resilience to survive physical blows (Hence why things like say, the Knight Crusher, Flame Sword, being punched through a brick wall by the Hard Knuckle and having a huge chunk of concrete hurled at him and having his head repeatedly smashed against the ground with the Super Arm didn't immediately kill him despite their lethal potential against ordinary beings.), explosions (Same with the Flame Blast and the Crash Bombs detonating right under his feet). Heck, the only time he really evidently got injured outside of the deathblow was when he got stabbed through the foot by the Triple Blade- and even then he healed up from that more-or-less immediately thanks to his Super Transformation, and up until then was shrugging off Mega Man's combos, casually deflecting Flash Bombs with his Insta-Shield and kicking Metal Blades out of the air, among other things. Ultimately though, something that as established is capable of annihilating ancient alien superweapons and entire giant temples, on top of being forced into a powerful rip in space-time by it afterward even if was to survive somehow, would be too much for him- or for that matter, most other beings of his level. Same with Shadow resisting the Galick Gun early on in his regular form but being vaporised in one hit by Vegeta's Final Flash ("Sayonara!") in Vegeta VS Shadow after he changed back from his own super form despite the healing. So overall? Sonic is very tough yes, and I did try to show that as much as I could- but he has limits, which Mega Man was established to be capable of pushing him to. No disrespect or downplay intended. Speaking of which... '''Downplay "I find that Sonic downplay is pretty popular on this wiki too..." I'm not entirely sure, to be honest- I mean, outside of Meta Knight and arguably my version of the Mega Man fight, I don't think I've ever actually seen Sonic legimately lose a fight on here. I haven't read all of them, but from the ones I have seen, he's mostly able to win them quite comfortably. I will say to be honest, Mega Man downplay is a lot more common, especially on some really poorly-done matches I've seen on here where he's depicted as being completely weak and incompetent. That being said though, it is a bit ridiculous that people are saying Mega Man and Pit are faster than Sonic without using flight or teleportation. I mean, sure they can track such fast opponents well and react to them accordingly (Which was one of the big factors as to why Mega Man won against Sonic here.), but they can't actually run that fast without assistance. But yup, hope these help- and if there's anything else you need to ask me about it, just say. I did also have an alternate ending idea from the research period in which Sonic wins uploaded on here as well, just to mention. Did you check that one out already?